I dont think so. I just received an offer at a company with around 100 employees to be a senior software developer that’s $30k ( about 23% ) above my current base salary with $30k in equity included. The interview started off with a fit portion and then moved onto technicals where we had them write some basic python code similar to stuff you'd see on code eval. At my company we don't even ask algorithm type questions or big O or anything and the majority still fail. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the cscareerquestions community. So as much as I hate programming, I definitely give SE's credit. Sadly… non-technical hiring managers can’t tell the difference. but No not all programmers are engineers. Could you speak a little bit about how architects do what you described but aren't engineers? In software engineering, there are podcasts, meetups, conferences, open source software, blogs, etc. Don't ever think it isn't.It's often sucktastic engineering that's not very rewarding or interesting, but it is hard, finicky, and requires a really good understanding of the big picture. While the approaches may vary it generally comes down to: Solve problem X minimising A, B, C subject to constraints P, Q, Z, so yes, software engineers are unequivocally engineers. As a coincidence, I feel like by the time you have a family and are older, you would have moved past the "coding" phase and more into the management phase which allows way more flexibility, but since I'm a still a student I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Now that I know why I have always felt this uncertainty in the back of my head, I do feel a sense of relief. Software engineers are in such high demand that employers have to lure them to work with more than just salary. edit: typo level 2 To become a web developer, dev ops, or software engineer you have to overcome a lot of obstacles. Worse yet, employers aren't great at evaluating candidates, either. For me, I think the term "software engineer" is very applicable. Software engineering itself requires design, documentation, cohesion between components, and implementation of robust solutions. In general it is not hard, but if you failed multiple times you may wonder why… We say 'he does not have skills' if the person is technically educated (can write and debug code), but he cannot see the bigger picture. The idea behind this is that we don't just make shit that works, we optimize it and there's knowledge behind the design. Bingo. They started out 10 years ago doing X, they are currently still doing X, and if it were up to them they'd be doing X until they retire in a bunch of years. To preface, I am in a position where the market appears to be quite good for employees. Not an engineer. Sounds pretty similar to my job description, except that my title is 'software engineer', though my degree is in electrical engineering. The core is solving a problem. So why do you not consider yourself an electrical engineer? You will need to work hard and spend some effort learning them. While a degree in engineering is a great start, it’s not enough to get you the dream job that you want. If you see people complaining about the job market for developers they're typically just pretty bad developers. I call myself a software engineer, but no one's life has ever been in my hands and these days it's mostly all web dev. In general, I believe there is a lack of skilled developers. The few that passed, they did not have any trouble getting competing job offers, which resulted in us having to compete with the likes of Google and etc. A software engineer is not only programming, but they are programming with a specific structure/language and design for the program in mind. Example: I used to work in aerospace, developing GPS systems for the military. Read the sidebar BEFORE posting. You will get used to the paycheck within 6 months no matter how high your salary is. Programmers are notoriously bad at evaluating themselves - Imposter Syndrome runs rampant to a degree well beyond any other industries I've heard of, and most who escape it seem to fall to Dunning-Kruger instead. It's much easier to get a visa if you're a software engineer. My official job title is electrical engineer. Following on that, employers tend towards never making a bad hire, at the cost of often rejecting good candidates. It's hard to make an argument that what I do is not engineering, as there's probably ~50 engineers working together on several million lines of code to make something that can tell you your position anywhere on earth to an accuracy of 10 cm. At it's core engineering is basically optimisation. We are building things and optimizing systems and juggling constraints just like any other engineering discipline, it's just with a different palette of skills. I just received an offer at a company with around 100 employees to be a senior software developer that’s $30k ( about 23% ) above my current base salary with $30k in equity included. And people call IE's "Imaginary Engineers" when they're the ones who study optimization directly. Update for computer science vs software engineering reddit. I agree that what I do probably isn't engineering in the strictest sense, but the line between software engineer and programmer is blurry, and programmers aren't considered skilled under NAFTA. As Clean Code gives you the foundations of programming, Design Patterns teaches you recipes to write manageable and scalable code.. For small or large programs, thinking about how to design it from the get-go is one of the mandatory skills of a good software engineer.. Press J to jump to the feed. First of all let me say this. Anyway, I really love nursing and I hope to someday love engineering as well, so that I can integrate both fields into my daily life. The majority of them did terrible. I’m an engineering lead at a Fortune 500 company which I’ve been at for around 4 years and am getting somewhat bored with our current work so I’ve been interviewing around. More Work Perks than the Average Gig. Computer science is mainly about algorithms (and thus software), and Software engineering is about managing large software projects (a mix between computer programming and business project management.) Really what engineering boils down to understanding the functional science behind optimal design. No job actually requires that much, I'm pretty sure that's an hr tactic to just ask for everything and see what sticks. Now before anyone starts throwing bottles at my head, I'm not saying software design is easy or that its not a technical discipline, but I really hate it when programmers call themselves engineers. I'm an EE undergrad. Almost all millionaires are self-employed. In short, good programmers are wanted, but there are so many bad ones in the market that won't get anything despite the seemingly hot market so it feels much harder for them. It seems like companies are constantly in search of good developers. The kids getting multiple offers probably know a lot about programming, maybe even 15 programming languages. You should choose Software Engineering if you are more interested in the hands-on approach, and if you want to learn the overall life cycle of how software is built and maintained. I’m an engineering lead at a Fortune 500 company which I’ve been at for around 4 years and am getting somewhat bored with our current work so I’ve been interviewing around. But not a one of them is an engineer. I learned so much more than just engineering concepts. Software engineering is a terrible choice if you want to do it for money. They design software, deploy, test it for quality and maintain it. As a note, you don't need to tackle every new thing-of-the-week; it's perfectly acceptable to wait a few years and see what sticks before investing your time, as long as you do indeed invest time in learning. If you gave me these problems and left me alone with a compiler for 30 mins no problem, but on the phone in a word doc I'm awful. Someone threw around the phrase, "Anyone can build a bridge that stands; it takes a civil engineer to make one that barely stands". Read the sidebar BEFORE posting. This is how a feel about software developers. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Software engineers are a subset of programmers (which is a pretty confusing title). Whether the part is a mechanical joint or a software procedure doesn't really matter. Separately, it's amazing what you can do with just a laptop. For someone throwing together a website, maybe not. It depends. The key here is "skilled." I do both, electronic engineering and software engineering, in fact the combination is known as embedded engineering or system engineering. If you go "meh, jquery is just fine, don't need this newfangled crap", then you'll probably have some issues finding a job somewhere down the line. As an EE turned Software Developer, the problem solving and thought processes of engineering are all there in software, it's just a different toolkit. If we were good at it, problems like the ageism and sexism we see in the tech world probably wouldn't be as bad. The software engineers on our team developed all the software for these systems ... gui's, drivers, etc. The math courses are challenging but students have many resources available to help them. Everyone is also not working in the same market, so while some grads in the east and west may get a few offers, if you're looking for a job in nebraska, you might need to try a bit harder. You're talking about controls. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the engineering community. This covers everything from interfacing with lots of hardware to creating abstraction layers over that hardware so it's much easier to use, modular, and testable. Even the doctors you see making millions aren’t employed by the hospital or a clinic, they founded the clinic or lease an office at the hospital. All three of these disciplines are difficult. Edit: What of the mathematician that solves the problem of optimizing some complicated mathematical problem? So there’s the cali-or-bust meme that often goes around on Reddit. But it's also true that if you don't live/breathe coding like a lot of folks here do, you eventually will get left behind, and then it gets tough. I hear from recruiters 3 or 4 times a week. Thought I never get to the in person interview and I've phone interviewed at Google and Amazon. 35) Which process model removes defects before software get into trouble? Fellow GPS software engineer here. If you don't like what you do, doing it for a living will mean you're doing something you … It's true that there are a LOT of shitty developers. If you're a developer who likes learning new stuff; you're golden. None of that says optimization to me except working within your means. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, BS | Mechanical Engineering | Industrial Gas. I would recommend starting in August/early September, or October at the latest. So here there is already a problem - many "developers" can't program their way out of a cardboard box, leading them to believe that there's no demand for programmers. The answer is an enum with a bunch of if cases. They are set of automated software application programs, which are used to support, enhance and strengthen the SDLC activities. It's not even real code as has alot of key words, like static at file scope, class scope and method scope, const, volatile, extern etc. yeah but that sound more like a controls/integration engineer. They came to the same meetings as the hardware and systems engineers and had to design according to the same design control standards as the other engineers, design inputs, design outputs, design reviews, validation, verification, etc., etc. r/engineering is **NOT** for students to ask for guidance on selecting their major, or for homework / project help. The people that survive get some kind of fizzbuzz type of question. How is that not engineering? At its core engineering is basically optimisation. Not just software. A smart dude who solves stuff... but not an engineer. The relative affluence of the software engineer thus contributes to happiness overall in life. Press J to jump to the feed. I feel more motivated to work hard. Heck, even the mediocre ones tend to have no problems finding new jobs. I've seen a lot of them. Can I create the best possible part to solve some problem. Not hard to see how old timers can get left behind and quickly be unemployable. Why wouldn't it be? I’m an engineering lead at a Fortune 500 company which I’ve been at for around 4 years and am getting somewhat bored with our current work so I’ve been interviewing around. A lot of people whining do not have these things. How is that not engineering? Unfortunately, people tend to assume that writing new software is like building a house or fixing a car, and that as such the contractor or mechanic involved should be perfectly capable of providing a reliable estimate for the work to be done in advance of the customer approving the work. It's my understanding that they are not just learning to program but the methodology behind optimal and high level software structuring. So in answer to your question: Yes software engineering really is engineering, unless you use some very weird definition of 'engineer'. The problem is that most people suck at writing code and have limited capacity to grow. High salary, tons of places to work. 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